ÓÕÂÊ: ÃÇÓ/Ã65=MISSED POINT!!! (Ò5) ÆÒÏÍ: ÊÂÅÅ 08/11/89 Ó#: 429853 ÓO FAR WE HAVE HEARD ALL THE PROS AND CONS ABOUT MARKETING (AND É THINK THE NADAS ARE RIGHT) THE NEW MACHINE. ÂUT, HOW ABOUT THE ONE THING THAT ACTUALLY DETERMINES PRODUCT SUCCESS????? ÓÏÆÔ×ÁÒÅ ÄÅÖÅÌÏÐÍÅÎÔ !!!! ÉT WILL BE ÉÆÆ COMPATIBLE AND RUN 65ØØ CODE. ÒIGHT NOW MOST OF THE MAJOR SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS NOW PRODUCE TITLES BOTH FOR THE ÁMIGA AND 64. ÉF YOU CAN PORT SCREENS OVER EASILY, AND YOU HAVE PROGRAMMERS THAT ALREADY PROGRAM AND DEVELOP IN 65ØØ DOESN'T IT MAKE IT PRETTY EASY TO DEVELOP PROGRAMS/GAMES THAT RUN ON THE 65/ÃÇÓ??? -::- ÓÕÂÊ: É AM SURE (Ò) ÆÒÏÍ: ÌOU×ALLACE 08/14/89 Ó#: 845081 THAT IS SOMETHING ÃÂÍ HAS CONSIDERED. ÇOOD POINT. -::- ÓÕÂÊ: ÈUMBLY... (Ò) ÆÒÏÍ: Æ ÈÕÄÓÏÎ 08/15/89 Ó#: 848470 É AM NOT WITHIN RADAR RANGE OF ÌEW'S PROGRAMMING TALENT, BUT É SUSPECT THE NEW MACHINE WILL HAVE A DIFFERENT GRAPHICS CHIP WITH NEW MODES AND ADRESSES ETC. ÔHESE MAY WELL BE BETTER THAN THE 128'S OR 64'S, BUT THEY WILL MOST LIKELY ALSO BE DIFFERENT, SO YOUR 6502 PROGRAMMER WILL HAVE TO ADJUST SOME TO PROGRAM THIS NEW MACHINE. ÁS TO THE ÉÆÆ PORTING--THIS IS AT PRESENT NO BIG TRICK ÅØÃÅÐÔ FOR THE COLOUR MAPS (THE 64 AND EVEN THE 128 DON'T HAVE THE DISPLAY ÒÁÍ TO DO DOT-ADDRESSABLE COLOUR, AND THE ENTRY LEVEL Ã65 MAY NOT EITHER). ÁT ÖOYAGER ÍINDTOOLS WE OFTEN DO GRAPHICS WORK ON THE "ÁMIGA ÇRAPHICS ÐERIPHERAL" AND THEN PORT THEM OVER TO THE 128 WHERE THEY ARE COLOURED IN WHATEVER 128 MODE THEY WILL BE DISPLAYED IN. ÏF COURSE GAME DESIGN IS MORE THAN PRETTY SCREENS: SPRITES, BOBS, MISSLE GRAPHICS--WHATEVER YOU CALL 'EM--PLAY A BIG PART IN MOST GAMES. ÁND OH YES, DISK FORMAT AND É&Ï SPEED ENTERS IN HERE TOO. É'LL BET A GUY WITH ÌEW'S SMARTS AND EXPERIENCE WILL FIGURE OUT WAYS AROUND THESE PROBLEMS/DIFFERENCES--BUT É REMAIN A SKEPTIC AS TO HOW MANY COMMERICAL GAME DEVELOPERS WILL TAKE UP THE CHALLANGE OF THE Ã65 WHEN THERE IS READY MONEY TO BE MADE ELSEWHERE. -::- ÓÕÂÊ: ÄID I DETECT (Ò) ÆÒÏÍ: ÕSER C128 08/15/89 Ó#: 440981 A ÃANADIAN ACCENT..ÆRANK? -::- ÓÕÂÊ: MORE THEORY (Ò) ÆÒÏÍ: ÌOU×ALLACE 08/17/89 Ó#: 445848 ÆRANK, SOME OF YOUR POINTS ARE WELL TAKEN, BUT AGAIN É SUSPECT IF WE WERE ABLE TO GET OUR HANDS ON A REAL 'Ã65' MANY OF YOUR CONCERNS WOULD JUST MELT AWAY. ÆOR EXAMPLE, É WOULD BET A COLD BEER THAT AN ENTRY LEVEL MACHINE (ONE WITHOUT THE 1 MEG EXPANSION) WOULD BE ABLE TO DISPLAY ALL THE GRAPHIC MODES THE MACHINE IS CAPABLE OF. (ÃONTRARY TO ALL THE ERRONEOUS INFO IN THE LATEST ÇAZETTE.) ÅVEN WITH ÂASIC IN PLACE 128Ë LEAVES A LOT OF ROOM FOR GRAPHICS. ÁS FOR VIDEO CHIP DIFFERENCES, WITH NEW FEATURES THERE MUST BE SOME REAL DIFFERENCES FROM EARLIER ÖÉà CHIPS. ÂUT AGAIN, SINCE THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME EMPHASIS OF Ã64 COMPATIABILITY, ALL THE OLD MODES AND PROGRAMMING TECHNIQUES WOULD HAVE TO BE AVAILABLE AND EXACTLY THE SAME (OR SO É WOULD ASSUME), IF ONE WANTED TO ACCESS THEM. ÔHEN WE HAVE THE QUESTION OF HOW DIFFICULT IT WOULD BE TO PROGRAM NEW MODES. ÕSING MY OWN 6502 GRAPHICS BACKGROUND AND ÁMIGA PROGRAMMING EXPERIENCE AS A BASE TO START ON, MY BEST GUESS IS THAT PROGRAMMING ANY NEWLY ENHANCED BITPLANE ORIENTED ÖÉà CHIP WILL BE SURPRISINGLY EASY...IN SOME WAYS IT MIGHT BE EVEN EASIER THAN OLD ÖÉà MODES. ×HO CAN SAY? ÁND, IF PROGRAMMERS GET LUCKY, PERHAPS THERE WILL BE SOME DECENT GRAPHIC SUPPORT BUILT IN FOR BOTH ÂASIC AND ML PROGRAMMERS, MAKING IT EVEN EASIER TO GET STARTED. ÁS FOR SPRITES AND BOBS, (PLAYER/MISSLE GRAPHICS ARE JUST AN OLD ATARI WORD FOR SPRITES) ANY ÖÉà CHIP WILL SUPPORT SPRITES. ÂÏÂS (ÂLITTER ÏÂJECTS) ARE JUST BITMAP BEING MOVED AROUND, AND WHILE NO CUSTOM HARDWARE WOULD BE AVAILABLE, A FAST ÃÐÕ CAN STILL MOVE BITMAPS AROUND (THE ÓÔ AND ÍAC DO IT ALL THE TIME), ALTHOUGH IT WOULDN'T BE ANYWHERE AS FAST AS THE ÁMIGAS HARDWARE ALLOWS. ÁND, IF ÁMIGA ÉÆÆ GRAPHIC COMPATABILITY REALLY DOES HAPPEN (NO SMALL FEAT) IT WOULD BE BUILT IN AND READILY AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE, THE AVERAGE ÂASIC OR ML PROGRAMMER AS WELL AS COMMERCIAL DEVELOPER. ÃOMMERCIAL PEOPLE WOULD BENEFIT MOST FROM THIS, BECAUSE THEY ALREADY USE THE ÁMIGA TO GENERATE THEIR GRAPHICS FOR PRODUCTS FOR THE Ã64, ÉÂÍ, ÁPPLE ÉÉGS, ÓÔ, ETC. ÓO ALL É CAN SAY IS É DOUBT IT WILL TAKE A GURU TO USE THESE AS YET UNANNOUNCED BOXES. ËEEP IN MIND THAT WHEN THE 128 CAME OUT IT SUPPORTED ALL THOSE NEAT ÖÉà FEATURES THAT WERE SO DIFFICULT TO USE IN Ã64 ÂASIC. É DOUBT ÃÂÍ ÅNGINEERING WOULD RELEASE A MACHINE WITHOUT BUILT-IN, EASILY ACCESSABLE GRAPHIC SUPPORT. -::- ÓÕÂÊ: ÍACHINES ÆÒÏÍ: ÌÏÖÈÁÕÇ 08/18/89 Ó#: 787145 ÆOR SOMETHING THAT IS PURELY SPECULATION AT THIS POINT, THAT WAS A WONDERFULLY AUTHORATATIVE ANSWER ÌOU, THANKS. ÉT JUST GOES TO SHOW THAT YOU ARE THE MASTER OF BOTH THE KNOWN AND THE UNKNOWN AS FAR AS THE WORLD OF ÃOMMODORE GRAPHICS IS CONCERNED. É AGREE THAT ANY ENHANCED ÃOMMODORE EIGHT BIT BOX WOULD LIKELY NOT BE ALIEN TERRITORY FOR ANYONE WITH Ã-64 AND/OR Ã-128 PROGRAMMING EXPERIENCE. ÁND É TOO BELIEVE THAT IF ÃOMMODORE AS THE RIGHT PEOPLE WORKING ON SUCH A BOX IT WILL BE A KEEN PIECE OF HARWARE. ÍY RESERVATIONS ABOUT THIS BOX LIE NOT WITH THE SPECTUATED HARDWARE ITSELF, HOWEVER. ÍY RESERVATIONS LIE WITH THE MARKETPLACE. ÁS É SAID IN MY ESSAY IN ISSUE #25, THERE IS PLENTY OF COMPETITION FOR THE POTENTIAL DOLLARS OF THE Ã-64 UPGRADER. ÌOW COST CLONES, USED AND DISCOUNTED 128S, AND THE ÁMIGA ARE ALL ATTRACTIVE FOR VARIOUS REASONS. ÉN LIGHT OF THAT COMPETITION É AM SIMPLY NOT CERTAIN THAT ÃOMMODORE WILL DO WELL WITH THIS MACHINE. É AM GOING TO KEEP AN OPEN MIND, BUT É DO THINK THE NEW 8 BIT MIGHT BE FACING A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL UPHILL RIDE, ESPECIALLY AS CLONE AND ÁMIGA PRICES CONTINUE TO TUMBLE. ×E SHALL SEE. --ÌOREN